Male Students on an International Scholarship
I have written multiple posts in the past about Saudi students who are studying abroad on a scholarship. I feel compelled to address this topic again due to the number of foreign (non-Saudi) women who enter in to a relationship with a Saudi student.
In Saudi Arabia unrelated men and women are segregated and prohibited by law to intermingle. Most Saudi men in the Kingdom have minimal to no contact with women to whom they are not related. Their time with women is with family such as Grandmother, Aunts, mother and sister. If a Saudi man were to have any interaction with female cousins or sister-in-laws these women must be covered in front of him.
Some Saudi families may be more open and not adhere to the tradition of segregation. However compared to the overall population in Saudi Arabia, these families are in the minority.
The Saudi student who receives a scholarship to study abroad will be advised and given information about requirements he is to follow. Circumventing these requirements could result in revocation of his scholarship. He will know before he leaves the Kingdom that marriage to a foreigner (non-Saudi) is prohibited.
However, when the Saudi student arrives in a Western country he may be exposed to the lack of segregation for the first time. His reaction may be the same as setting a child loose in a candy store. He will be able to talk freely with women. He will be surrounded by women who do not cover their body or head in the manner of the Saudi woman. He will be able to make friends with women. He will be able to date! And, if he chooses, he can have a relationship with a foreign woman.
Perhaps due to his upbringing where contact with an unrelated woman generally means marriage, he may tell the woman with whom he is having a relationship that he wishes to marry her. Yet with the restrictions he must abide to, he knows in his mind that a marriage is unlikely to happen. He is not only going against the regulations of his scholarship but he must also obtain approval from the Saudi government in order to marry a non-Saudi woman. This is further compounded by another regulation that any Saudi under the age of 35 is prohibited from marrying a foreigner.
Do marriages take place between a Saudi scholarship student and a foreigner given all the restrictions and regulations? Yes. Some Saudi students feel an obligation to marry a woman with whom they are having an intimate relationship. Others marry as they believe they have found love. The marriage may be a civil marriage and/or a very private Islamic marriage. Now couples are legally married but that does not mean a couple can travel to the Kingdom together as husband and wife. Government approval is still required. The majority of times the Saudi student returns to the Kingdom upon completion of his studies leaving his foreign wife behind.
In spite of taking the risk of marriage, the Saudi student is unlikely to acknowledge the marriage or request for approval of the marriage from the Saudi government. He does not want to jeopardize his scholarship. It may also be questionable on whether his family is aware that he married a foreigner. Many Saudi families will not accept or approval of their son marrying a foreigner. His mother may have already selected a woman she wishes for him to marry.
The foreign woman should educate herself on the Saudi culture and customs before entering in to a marriage with a Saudi. Saudi Arabia is one of the most conservative countries in the world. A foreign woman married to a Saudi will find herself in a world where segregation is natural and modesty expected. She may or may not be accepted by her husband’s family. Without any of her own family members or friends around her she may feel very isolated. Her husband may be pressured or obligated to have a Saudi wife. The Saudi man, as a Muslim, can have up to four wives. If the couple have marriage difficulties and divorce, the husband will have custody of any children. The wife, as a foreigner, may be obligated to leave the Kingdom because she no longer has a sponsor (her husband).
There have been happy and successful marriages between Saudi men and foreign women but the marriage approval may have taken years. A lot of patience, faith and perseverance are required.
Please take the time to visit American Bedu to view original blog.
Saudi Arabia: More on Relationships between Westerners and Saudis
When a westerner and a Saudi are married life is never the same! Before the couple travel to Saudi Arabia together their marriage should have been already approved by the government. It is not that a Saudi MUST have his government’s permission to marry who he wants but government approval of the marriage is required in order to live legally as husband and wife in the Kingdom.
Some couples who have married outside of Saudi and do not yet have approval may choose to travel to Saudi anyway. The spouse of the Saudi may travel on an umrah visa. While the umrah visa (which is valid for one month) does bring the spouse into the Kingdom, the couple are taking a great risk since unrelated men and women are not to be mingling let alone living together. The government would not view a Western marriage contract as valid.
For the couple whose marriage is recognized, the Saudi husband is the official sponsor of the wife. His name will be cited as the official sponsor on her iqama (residence permit) and the iqama will further identify her as the wife of the Saudi. If the woman eventually obtains Saudi nationality, she will no longer require an iqama and instead she will be identified as the wife of a Saudi on his identity papers.
It can be confusing. For example, whenever my husband and I were entering a compound in Riyadh which had Saudi security forces, we were always asked to provide identification of our relationship. Now my husband’s vehicle also had an official Ministry of Foreign Affairs sticker so after proving our relationship, he was often asked by the security forces how he managed to get permission to marry a Westener! This was always asked in a respectful and oftentimes envious tone.
Much lesser seen but not altogether impossible is the Western man who has married a Saudi woman. However I do not know of any cases where the Western man is not a Muslim. The couple could certainly not live in Saudi together if that were the case.
The Western/Saudi couples become a club of sorts no matter which city they live in. The couples seem to gravitate together and share experiences of getting their marriage approved to what are the challenges of being a bi-culture couple in the Kingdom. The challenges may or may not increase as a couple have children.
The bi-cultural couples probably see and understand more of Saudi than many expatriates or perhaps even some Saudis. The couple has their Saudi life and extended families; they have the other couples with their similar circumstances; and they usually have an active life with other expatriates too.
As such, I think the bi-cultural couple in Saudi is uniquely positioned to be a bridge builder and address misperceptions and misunderstandings between the two cultures.
Please take the time to visit American Bedu to see original blog
Saudi Arabia: Western Women – Don’t Roll Over for Your Saudi
This post is directed to the Western woman who has fallen in love with a Saudi while he is outside of his home country.
A Saudi man can be the most charming and most gracious man when he is courting a woman. He has words which make the woman feel like the most cherished and pampered Princess. He will tell her that there is no one like her and he will not have a life without her. He will show consideration and manners of a Prince to her family and friends. They will all congratulate her for finding such a likeable man.
The young woman is very proud to have such a man as her partner. He is charming, handsome, articulate and more than anything she has ever dreamed in a man. She probably will not question him too deeply and take all of his words to heart, including how he will love her forever and someday carry her to Saudi Arabia.
She probably does not know a lot about life in Saudi Arabia and may imagine it as a country where all are rich and she will live like a Royal Princess in a magnificent villa and ride in a chauffeured driven Rolls Royce. After all, her Saudi wears the latest fashions, drives a new sports car and never seems to worry about money as they go out together to all the trendy places. Why should she expect anything different in Saudi Arabia?
Therefore it is not surprising that at some point this western girl and her Saudi segue to an intimate relationship. With this new intimacy comes a greater awareness on her part that when he finishes his schooling or training, he will likely be returning to Saudi Arabia. When she brings up the subject to him, he carelessly tosses her worries away. “Don’t worry,” he says, “You are the love of my life. I will never leave you alone.”
She may choose to become less careful with birth control and months before his planned return to his home, she breaks the words to him that she is pregnant. Instead of the reaction she expects, his body becomes rigid and he questions her about birth control. He is not overjoyed like she had hoped and feels him starting to pull away from her. Is it any surprise that ultimately he returns to Saudi Arabia and she does not hear from him as she remains behind single and pregnant?
If you are a young Western woman and in a relationship with a Saudi, don’t think that this could never be you. This is happening. I receive pleas from young women who are pregnant by a Saudi who has returned back to the Kingdom. Most of these women want to be reunited with their Saudi. They are sure there is some misunderstanding or that he has been unable to contact her since he has returned. While it may sound harsh, I say remove the blinders! If a young woman is not hearing from her Saudi since he has returned to the Kingdom, it is likely by his choice.
Some of these women want to find a way that they can go to Saudi Arabia. They feel that if they are there he will reconsider and want to be with her. Again, a woman should not run after a man like that! If he did not make a commitment once he knew a woman was pregnant with his child, then the woman is better off making a separate life for herself and her child far away from Saudi Arabia.
The last thing a foreign woman should want is to go to a strange country where she will not have any say about the lifestyle and treatment she and her child may receive. Consider this, a Saudi may be pressured to get his child to the Kingdom. The young woman and her child may arrive but then she may shortly find herself shown on the next flight out without her child. Yes; this can happen! Be suspicious if a Saudi man who for all intents had abandoned a woman with his child has a sudden change of heart. I understand a woman wants to believe with all her heart that he has seen the need to change his ways but that may not be the case. If a Saudi family learned of a child, the young man may be pressured for the child to be brought to Saudi where it can be raised as a good Muslim. A western woman who gives birth to a child out of wedlock is unlikely to be accepted by a Saudi family.
This advice may sound harsh but it is stated with the best intentions for the woman in mind.
Please visit American Bedu to view original blog
Saudi Arabia: In Saudi, A Man Can Simply Disappear
This is a frank message to women who are involved with a Saudi; this message is especially pertinent to a woman who may meet a Saudi while he is a student outside of the Kingdom.
Saudi men are raised in a closed and conservative society where segregation among the sexes remains the norm. Many Saudi men will have had little to no time alone with their wife until –after- the marriage ceremony has taken place. The wedding nightis usually the first time the couple will have been alone together.
Saudi men are raised to protect and cherish the women. That’s not to say that a Saudi guy will not try to flirt or talk with a woman. In all likelihood, he will. He will enjoy those opportunities but then that may automatically place the woman in a new category where she is “okay to flirt with and have fun with” but not a woman who would be considered a candidate as a future wife.
Therefore when the Saudi guy departs the Kingdom for an extended period such as a student coming to the West for four to six years of study, he finds himself immersed not only in a new country but a whole new world. Men and women are not segregated and have classes together. They may even share same floors in a college dorm or be neighbors in an apartment building. In some cases they live in the same house where they each have rented rooms.
Outside of Saudi Arabia the foreign women may smile naturally at a Saudi guy and engage with him in discussions. After all, the foreign women have never been to Saudi Arabia and likely have no inkling of the different culture and traditions. The Saudi guy will likely respond and enjoy the attention. He will also be naturally charming, pleasant and personable.
He will enjoy the experiences of freedoms he would not encounter within the Kingdom. He may also start to have strong feelings of emotion for the woman. It may feel natural and right to tell her he loves her and that she means the world to him. He is probably sincere at the time too.
Because of cultural differences a relationship may move quickly between a Saudi and a foreigner. He is also influenced by his culture when he is becoming close to a foreign woman and will want to please her. Yet eventually as it gets closer for him to return to his country many of these same sincere Saudi men start to get a dose of reality.
They will feel torn between the freedoms they have experienced and the woman who gave and shared new experiences with them. The foreign woman will be missed. He will pledge his love and promises of returning or sending for her. After his departure he may continue to call her but eventually those calls will be less often, further and further apart.
He will still not want to disappoint nor have her think bad or unkindly of him. Usually he will simply disappear.
But…wait a minute…how can a man simply disappear? She’s met his friends. She’s talked to his brothers. They know her.
That may be true but again she has not been exposed to the closed and private culture of Saudi Arabia. The men will stick together. They may know the woman and have even referred to her as a ‘sister’ but they stick together. Sister is often the polite term a Saudi man will refer to a foreign female he meets through one of his own (Saudi) friends. She is the foreigner and he will be loyal and protective of his own Saudi friend. The friend will follow whatever his fellow Saudi has requested.
Now don’t start raising your eyebrows. This is not just because she is a foreigner. Even within the Kingdom a man can simply disappear. There are Saudi women who never had a clue that their husband had more than one wife until the time of his death when they find the inheritance must be shared. Yes, the Saudi man was able to live totally different and compartmentalized lives. The Saudi families will act and do whatever they believe is in the best interest of the families.
Saudi Arabia is not like a Western country where there are multiple alternatives for validating and verifying information such as where a man lives or works. In Saudi Arabia, if a man wants to, he can choose to simply disappear.
Please take the time to visit American Bedu to view original blog.
The Saudi boyfriend
Save the Women
So many girls and young women are deeply disappointed when in a relationship with a saudi student or young man.
why is that so?
To tell you the truth, many saudi students just want to fuck girls and then go home to marry a proper saudi (virgin) girl. Virginity really is only put on women. They often have no serious plans but they are clever enough to keep that secret. They may be are swept off their feet as well. But truth is, they are seldom if ever honest about the relationship or future.Again and again and again and again I get mails or meet or hear from foreign women who have been duped, lied to or abandoned by saudi men. Always saudi men.So if you want nothing but a bit of fun, and have no plans for a future together whatsoever: yes. Date a saudi man.
if you do want to have a future you should think very carefully and be very strong. You should be ready to give up the relationship if he turns out to be a lost cause.Things to think of when thinking of dating a saudi man.* Women in saudi arabia have no rights. basically they are slaves. nothing, no single small decision can be made by a woman herself unless the man who has ownership over her allows it. There are no laws which protect women. Judges will almost always rule in favor of the man unless you have huge bribe money to pay to the judge
(btw you cannot go to court as a woman, the man who owns you has to do it for you)
*Women in saudi arabia are slaves. there is no other way of putting it.
* Saudi students can already be married or engaged. they will not tell you so, nor will their friends or family
* You cannot marry while he is on a scholarship. he will be send home asap if he is discovered
* To travel to saudi arabia as man and wife you will need government approval. you will not be eligeble for approval unless 35 years or older. It takes 5 years minimum, most people never get approval. You will need a lot of money for bribes and ”wasta” influence.
* the way he treats you now will not be the way he treats you when home
* if you have sex with him now he will probably secretly despise you and will not see you as marriage material
* Saudi students are allowed by a fatwa from Bin Baz to marry a foreign woman for pleasure and halal sex. to divorce her when they go home. This does and has happened.
* saudi men have mostly been brought up to consider women as weak and less capable than men. They have probably never talked to girls or women, they do not know how to interact with women. they deep in their heart have been brought up to despise women.
* Most , really most, people in the middle east consider western women to be sluts and whores. I am sorry but that is the truth. They do not cover, they can have sex with men: ergo: they are whores. Middle eastern people will never tell you so to your face but that is how they talk amongst each other.
* he can have secret extra wives, it is quite rare but it has happened to foreign wives as well as saudi wives. nobody will tell you.All saudi student know they cannot marry while studying abroad. they all know they cannot get permission until 35 and even then probably not.
If they tell you they did not know they are lying to you.
Saudis are very private, keep all their own affairs secret. They are very good liars: the idea is: if you don’t know it doesn’t hurt you so it doesn’t matter.All saudis are very heavily indoctrinated with a very harsh and unbending interpretation of Islam. They will forget that while abroad but they will remember when back home. Also, the look is more important than the truth in saudi arabia. you can do anything forbidden. If nobody knows it: it does not matter.So how do you know you are on safe ground?
You will always miss out on a very important safety net: your family is not saudi, is not living in saudi, so you or they cannot verify if he is speaking the truth or even allready married. Even middle eastern girls and their families have problems finding these things out.there are some points in favor:* He will be very protective of you. he will not introduce you to males. He will never show your photo to males. So no males, either family or best friends.
* He will tell his mother aunts and sisters fairly soon and tell them to stop looking for a bride as he has met somebody
* he will ask his mother and sisters to talk to you and meet you
* he will have told you when things became more serious about the impossibillity to marry or get goverment permission
* he is not bedouin, does not come from Riyad or another conservative area
* he will not want you to live in saudi arabia
EVER!
he will be working to be able to live in another country with you
considering the marriage restrictions and impossibillity of government permission this will be the only option anyway
* he will not want to have sex before marriage
* he will stand strong and without compromise against all of his family against all the pressure they can throw at you.
And believe me: they will!If he fails on these points: cut off relationships!
have respect and love for yourself. Keep yourself safe.Ask him how his female family members live in saudi arabia. have they traveled abroad? studied abroad? do they have cars and drivers? do they work? This is important because it is an indication if he and his family give women freedoms. Freedoms for women have to be given by men because woman have no rights in saudi arabia. Women are until death always under ownership by a man who is all powerful to make decisions for her.
Ofcourse you will not know for sure if he is truthful to you.In the end I can only say to be very aware. It is fact that different rules and options apply to a saudi man to any other man you may meet!
The culture and religion in saudi is so extreme, and so unfavorable for women it compares to nothing else. and it makes saudis behave like no other people in some ways.
Of course they are people like everybody else. But the culture and religion -they are one and the same- how they are brought up and taught, make saudi men in the end different from other men.
Before you want to jeopordise your heart and future in the case of a saudi man you will need to be extra careful, keep your distance, and realise there is very little chance of a happy future, much less chance than with men from other cultures and religions.
And that is the real fact.
Don’t have sex with a saudi student unless you see it as a fling only.Please take some time to visit Save the Women to view original blog
why is that so?
To tell you the truth, many saudi students just want to fuck girls and then go home to marry a proper saudi (virgin) girl. Virginity really is only put on women. They often have no serious plans but they are clever enough to keep that secret. They may be are swept off their feet as well. But truth is, they are seldom if ever honest about the relationship or future.
To tell you the truth, many saudi students just want to fuck girls and then go home to marry a proper saudi (virgin) girl. Virginity really is only put on women. They often have no serious plans but they are clever enough to keep that secret. They may be are swept off their feet as well. But truth is, they are seldom if ever honest about the relationship or future.
Again and again and again and again I get mails or meet or hear from foreign women who have been duped, lied to or abandoned by saudi men. Always saudi men.
So if you want nothing but a bit of fun, and have no plans for a future together whatsoever: yes. Date a saudi man.
if you do want to have a future you should think very carefully and be very strong. You should be ready to give up the relationship if he turns out to be a lost cause.
if you do want to have a future you should think very carefully and be very strong. You should be ready to give up the relationship if he turns out to be a lost cause.
Things to think of when thinking of dating a saudi man.
* Women in saudi arabia have no rights. basically they are slaves. nothing, no single small decision can be made by a woman herself unless the man who has ownership over her allows it. There are no laws which protect women. Judges will almost always rule in favor of the man unless you have huge bribe money to pay to the judge
(btw you cannot go to court as a woman, the man who owns you has to do it for you)
*Women in saudi arabia are slaves. there is no other way of putting it.
* Saudi students can already be married or engaged. they will not tell you so, nor will their friends or family
* You cannot marry while he is on a scholarship. he will be send home asap if he is discovered
* To travel to saudi arabia as man and wife you will need government approval. you will not be eligeble for approval unless 35 years or older. It takes 5 years minimum, most people never get approval. You will need a lot of money for bribes and ”wasta” influence.
* the way he treats you now will not be the way he treats you when home
* if you have sex with him now he will probably secretly despise you and will not see you as marriage material
* Saudi students are allowed by a fatwa from Bin Baz to marry a foreign woman for pleasure and halal sex. to divorce her when they go home. This does and has happened.
* saudi men have mostly been brought up to consider women as weak and less capable than men. They have probably never talked to girls or women, they do not know how to interact with women. they deep in their heart have been brought up to despise women.
* Most , really most, people in the middle east consider western women to be sluts and whores. I am sorry but that is the truth. They do not cover, they can have sex with men: ergo: they are whores. Middle eastern people will never tell you so to your face but that is how they talk amongst each other.
* he can have secret extra wives, it is quite rare but it has happened to foreign wives as well as saudi wives. nobody will tell you.
(btw you cannot go to court as a woman, the man who owns you has to do it for you)
*Women in saudi arabia are slaves. there is no other way of putting it.
* Saudi students can already be married or engaged. they will not tell you so, nor will their friends or family
* You cannot marry while he is on a scholarship. he will be send home asap if he is discovered
* To travel to saudi arabia as man and wife you will need government approval. you will not be eligeble for approval unless 35 years or older. It takes 5 years minimum, most people never get approval. You will need a lot of money for bribes and ”wasta” influence.
* the way he treats you now will not be the way he treats you when home
* if you have sex with him now he will probably secretly despise you and will not see you as marriage material
* Saudi students are allowed by a fatwa from Bin Baz to marry a foreign woman for pleasure and halal sex. to divorce her when they go home. This does and has happened.
* saudi men have mostly been brought up to consider women as weak and less capable than men. They have probably never talked to girls or women, they do not know how to interact with women. they deep in their heart have been brought up to despise women.
* Most , really most, people in the middle east consider western women to be sluts and whores. I am sorry but that is the truth. They do not cover, they can have sex with men: ergo: they are whores. Middle eastern people will never tell you so to your face but that is how they talk amongst each other.
* he can have secret extra wives, it is quite rare but it has happened to foreign wives as well as saudi wives. nobody will tell you.
All saudi student know they cannot marry while studying abroad. they all know they cannot get permission until 35 and even then probably not.
If they tell you they did not know they are lying to you.
Saudis are very private, keep all their own affairs secret. They are very good liars: the idea is: if you don’t know it doesn’t hurt you so it doesn’t matter.
If they tell you they did not know they are lying to you.
Saudis are very private, keep all their own affairs secret. They are very good liars: the idea is: if you don’t know it doesn’t hurt you so it doesn’t matter.
All saudis are very heavily indoctrinated with a very harsh and unbending interpretation of Islam. They will forget that while abroad but they will remember when back home. Also, the look is more important than the truth in saudi arabia. you can do anything forbidden. If nobody knows it: it does not matter.
So how do you know you are on safe ground?
You will always miss out on a very important safety net: your family is not saudi, is not living in saudi, so you or they cannot verify if he is speaking the truth or even allready married. Even middle eastern girls and their families have problems finding these things out.
You will always miss out on a very important safety net: your family is not saudi, is not living in saudi, so you or they cannot verify if he is speaking the truth or even allready married. Even middle eastern girls and their families have problems finding these things out.
there are some points in favor:
* He will be very protective of you. he will not introduce you to males. He will never show your photo to males. So no males, either family or best friends.
* He will tell his mother aunts and sisters fairly soon and tell them to stop looking for a bride as he has met somebody
* he will ask his mother and sisters to talk to you and meet you
* he will have told you when things became more serious about the impossibillity to marry or get goverment permission
* he is not bedouin, does not come from Riyad or another conservative area
* he will not want you to live in saudi arabia
EVER!
he will be working to be able to live in another country with you
considering the marriage restrictions and impossibillity of government permission this will be the only option anyway
* he will not want to have sex before marriage
* he will stand strong and without compromise against all of his family against all the pressure they can throw at you.
And believe me: they will!
* He will tell his mother aunts and sisters fairly soon and tell them to stop looking for a bride as he has met somebody
* he will ask his mother and sisters to talk to you and meet you
* he will have told you when things became more serious about the impossibillity to marry or get goverment permission
* he is not bedouin, does not come from Riyad or another conservative area
* he will not want you to live in saudi arabia
EVER!
he will be working to be able to live in another country with you
considering the marriage restrictions and impossibillity of government permission this will be the only option anyway
* he will not want to have sex before marriage
* he will stand strong and without compromise against all of his family against all the pressure they can throw at you.
And believe me: they will!
If he fails on these points: cut off relationships!
have respect and love for yourself. Keep yourself safe.
have respect and love for yourself. Keep yourself safe.
Ask him how his female family members live in saudi arabia. have they traveled abroad? studied abroad? do they have cars and drivers? do they work? This is important because it is an indication if he and his family give women freedoms. Freedoms for women have to be given by men because woman have no rights in saudi arabia. Women are until death always under ownership by a man who is all powerful to make decisions for her.
Ofcourse you will not know for sure if he is truthful to you.
Ofcourse you will not know for sure if he is truthful to you.
In the end I can only say to be very aware. It is fact that different rules and options apply to a saudi man to any other man you may meet!
The culture and religion in saudi is so extreme, and so unfavorable for women it compares to nothing else. and it makes saudis behave like no other people in some ways.
Of course they are people like everybody else. But the culture and religion -they are one and the same- how they are brought up and taught, make saudi men in the end different from other men.
Before you want to jeopordise your heart and future in the case of a saudi man you will need to be extra careful, keep your distance, and realise there is very little chance of a happy future, much less chance than with men from other cultures and religions.
And that is the real fact.
Don’t have sex with a saudi student unless you see it as a fling only.
The culture and religion in saudi is so extreme, and so unfavorable for women it compares to nothing else. and it makes saudis behave like no other people in some ways.
Of course they are people like everybody else. But the culture and religion -they are one and the same- how they are brought up and taught, make saudi men in the end different from other men.
Before you want to jeopordise your heart and future in the case of a saudi man you will need to be extra careful, keep your distance, and realise there is very little chance of a happy future, much less chance than with men from other cultures and religions.
And that is the real fact.
Don’t have sex with a saudi student unless you see it as a fling only.
Please take some time to visit Save the Women to view original blog
